Forum.Gomoku.pl

[bromozel]

Hello!
Miro says that he want to answer, but wait for his account confirmation. Can you (who is admin here?) do it?

[sandra113]

Erratum: In the table provided on page 5 of the PDF file describing my analysis, two moves were typed wrongly and need to be corrected: Lukas' J10 must be replaced by I10, and Denis' F13 must be replaced by N/A (as it turns out that I misinterpreted one of his answers.)

Of course, these small corrections do not affect any conclusions in any way.

I will post an updated version of the analysis soon, but before that I will check it carefully to ensure there are no other typos.

I am thankful to Konstantin Nikonov for pointing out these inaccuracies.

[bromozel]

Okey, finally I found that Miro has no skills to register on this forum so he kindly asked me to put his answer here.

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fa.pdf

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[Fudjin]

[angst]

Fudjin account should be available right now. There is no automatic approval and it must be done manually by admin (Angst, Ece, Maestro). But let's focus on merits.

I count for interesting, but polite discussion.

Best regards

Angst

[zukole]

Nie wiem jaki jest sens wrzucać zapisy prywatnych rozmów na publiczne forum. Seria Black&White Meijin ma jednego admina i w razie konieczności tylko jego powinna interesować treść. Nie zalewajcie nas swoimi brudami

[Usiek]

Na ten moment informuję, że do czasu podjęcia decyzji, Daralagalleta jest zawieszony - nie może uczestniczyć w turniejach z serii White Meijin. Jeżeli decyzja będzie dla niego korzystna, otrzyma on rekompensatę punktową za opuszczony turniej (turnieje).

[Usiek]

Tabela w połowie serii White Meijin: http://gomokuworld.com/onlinetournaments/68

Czy ktoś dogoni Zoliego?

[sandra113]

[sandra113]

I would like to provide here the opinion of Denis Osipov (aka c0sm0s and nirvana), one of the best Russian players, on the game between daralagalleta (Fudjin) and puma1600, which is the third game in my analysis posted above.

Here is a link to the game.

Denis publicly expressed his opinion on vk.com in a series of messages, and below I just quote them and provide English translations.

Message 1:

Cytat:

Если кому-то интересно, сугубо мое мнение, что, вероятность применения программы той партии с пумой - 90%. Даже 99%. Там такое палево, что ппц).

Translation: If anyone is interested to know my opinion, the probability of that a program was used in that game is 90%. Even 99%. There is such exposure (of cheating) in there that I am really astonished by it.

Message 2:

Cytat:

При первом просмотре, даже несмотря на все статистики совпадений, четкой уверенности что это прога не было. Она появилась, только когда я стал думать над каждым ходом и в каждый момент оценивать позицию

Translation: When I briefly looked at the game, I did not come to a firm conviction that a program was used, even despite the statistics of coincidences (of moves played by Fudjin, Yixin, and the players who were asked to make moves in the same positions). I came to such a conviction only after I started thinking on each move and contemplating the position at each point of the game.

Message 3:

Cytat:

Илья, посмотри например первую игру Олега и Герго. Начиная с хода белых и10 и до хода черных л9 - постоянно висят довольно простые вины. И это Герго! И это на длинном контроле! И он до этого все правильно делал! И каждый раз он неоптимальную ветку выбирает, и в конце концов теряет все шансы. А здесь, на 7 минутах выбор сильнейших в принципе ходов, безошибочно, точно, с отыгрышем победы именно по варианту проги. Все люди участвовавшие в эксперименте сандры ( и я в том числе), по ее словам выбирали другой вариант победы на 4ках, который напрашивается если играть самому. Но отыграно было именно по иксину. Как будто поза каждый раз оценивалась заново, как и делает прога. Есть еще куча мелких признаков, котоыре все становятся очевидными если задумываться над ходами и позициями в каждый момент, а не тупо считать кол-во совпадений. Мне вообще пофиг на все баны. И на Мирошниченко мне тоже пофиг. И глобально на турнир насрать). Играет там и пусть играет. Но очевидную истину считаю своим долгом в некоторой степени осветить.

Translation:

Ilya, have a look at the first game between Oleg and Gergo. From i10 by white to L9 by black, there always were relatively easy wins. And it was Gergo himself! And it was a long time control! And he had been doing everything right before that! And each time he chose a suboptimal branch and finally lost all chances (to successfully accomplish building a win).

And here, in a 7 min game, we observe choosing the strongest moves, flawlessly, precisely, and playing a win exactly as the program suggests. According to Sandra, all players who participated in her experiment (including me) chose another VCF, which naturally comes to your mind if you play on your own. But Fudjin played exactly as Yixin suggests. Just like if the position was evaluated each time from scratch, which is how a program works.

There are many other small signs, all of which become evident if you think on each move and position rather than just count coincidences.

I don't care about bans at all. I don't care about Miroshnichenko, too. And, globally speaking, I don't care about the tournament. If he plays there, he plays there.

But I consider it my duty to shed some light on the obvious truth.

-- end of translation --

[Fudjin]

"Sandra", "I would have won in a different way" - it is very considerable, of course, argument to ban a player, lol.

[Fudjin]

Private messages was posted here and translated to show the incompetence of "Sandra".
P.S. Sorry for my imperfect English, but I don't have such practice like lamaza, oh Sandra.

[sandra113]

Fudjin, could you please directly answer the following two questions?

1. Have you ever cheated in the White Meijin series of tournaments?
2. Have you ever cheated in any online gomoku tournament, including the Euroleague?

Please say "yes" or "no" here, in this thread, in response to each of the above questions.

[Fudjin]

No and no.

[sandra113]

I have corrected and updated my analysis of Daralagalleta's games and have attached it to this post. I am convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that he cheated.

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analysis7.pdf Analysis

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