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MP Gomoku i MP gomoku blitz 2017
Autor Wiadomość
Członek Zarządu
Kapitan IRP

Dołączył: 28 Kwi 2004
Posty: 4928
Skąd: Płock
Wysłany: 2017-11-19, 15:40   

Sandra, in such a case you should not accept my apologies, as I made them only if "there really is the Organizers word" :D Not, if there could be or it was more or less obvious what Ilya had in his mind writing his report ;)

To be fully honest, I think I would never add this or if so, I would not defend it until the end, that this translation is accurate (especilly as author of original report denied your interpretation).

Nevertheless, as I stated in the beginning of my p.s., my aim was not to criticise your translation skills, but to emphasize quite important fact, not to let people interpret it in a wrong way. As Ilya confirmed, the pairings were prepared in a quite transparent way and probably everyone who participate in our tournament knows it. However, reading your translation, even such players who played in our tournaments before, could have wrong understanding of situation, not counting those ones, who don't know what to expect from us, regarding our competitions' standards.

What was also important for me, I wanted to justify my previous opinion regarding "100%". It's not my style to write such things, not being quite sure about it. To be fair enough, I doubt it's possible to make 100% perfect translation of any long text, however I pointed it out just to comment briefly my impression concerning Ilya's and your version of the report, as I found it rather important aspect. And it was not any kind of ex-post justification, but from the very beginning I had this particular sentence in my mind (I read only your version and seeing this fragment, I especially checked Ilya's report to see the full picture).

Moreover, I am quite sure that your translation is very good. However, regardless of the real reasons, it's good example, that it's worthy to check the original material before creating an atmosphere of understatement.

Kind regards,


Dołączyła: 23 Kwi 2016
Posty: 279
Skąd: Australia
Wysłany: 2017-11-19, 17:02   

Issues about interpretation are rather subjective, but I now want to show you something objective in which Ilya was definitely wrong.

In his description of his game against BBJ, Ilya stated that it was quite obvious to him that BBJ did not have a win.

I decided to check whether BBJ had a win.

Here is Ilya's protocol of that game:

The red arrows are added by me, as I noticed that the protocol has two 39th moves and two 40th moves. I asked Ilya on the Russian forum to explain this, and he said, "Here the sequence is unimportant - BBJ played two fours, and I blocked them." So the number of one of the 39th moves should be changed to 41, the number of the corresponding block should be changed from 40 to 42, and the number of each subsequent move should be changed by adding 2.

I then typed the game in Yixin, analysed it, and noticed that in the position shown below, Yixin shows a great advantage for BBJ. (BBJ played black.) This advantage increases with the depth of the analysis and reaches a value of about 500 at depth 19.

The move suggested by Yixin is 25-i7, which is different from how BBJ played, 25-j8.

If black plays 25-i7, as suggested by Yixin, then, obviously, white has three options to block the three - from above, in the middle, and from below, but Yixin quickly shows that the latter two options are losing, so white must block from above. The next move suggested by Yixin for black is 27-e13 - black has to block the VCF threat.

To find out whether white has a defence in the position after 27-e13, I asked Usiek for help, as Usiek has Renju Solver, a program which is more effective at finding wins than Yixin is.

Usiek spent an hour and confirmed that white has no defence. He sent me a screenshot with one of the longest branches:

In this branch, black creates a winning 3x3 fork on move 49.

So it is mathematically proven that BBJ had a win in his game against Ilya, in the position shown in the green screenshot above. The win is long, but it is there. It is a fully objective fact.

And here is how BBJ described his game against Ilya:

Miałem ogromną przewagę i tylko mój jeden słabszy ruch pozwolił mu na odniesienie zwycięstwa, w innym wypadku musiałby się rozpaczliwie bronić.

So the conclusion is obvious: BBJ was right, and Ilya was wrong.

Dołączył: 05 Sty 2014
Posty: 37
Skąd: Russia
Wysłany: 2017-11-20, 12:04   

There is some discussion about this game in our vk group. I don't plan to repeat it here :)

Dołączył: 04 Paź 2004
Posty: 4016
Skąd: Polska
Wysłany: 2018-08-19, 21:09   

Gry z zeszłorocznych MP są dostępne.
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