Forum.Gomoku.pl

[Attila]

Hello dear gomoku players!I would like to invite all of you to an Online Gomoku Cup organised by me.I think it would be a great idea to play a tournament between all the gomoku players from the level of beginners to the level of masters.If there
would be enough players registered to this tournament, I would organise it with pleasure.The details of the tournament:

1.)The Qualification tournament(2007.07.29. 20.00h)
It will be held on 29th of july,20.00,sunday.This is the first stage of the cup;anyone can take part.
The rules:11rounds,7min,swap2.
The importance of Qualification tournament:The first 8 players are allowed to play in the 2nd stage of the tournament.So,it's important to play well on the Qualification tournament because if you get into the first 8 place,you can go ahead to win the Cup.

2.)The 2nd stage of the tournament (date is questionable yet)
This is the 2nd stage of the tournament.Here,those players will play who could qualify themselves from the Qualification tournament.They will fight to qualify themselves to the semi-final.As I mentioned there will be 8 players fighting with each other.The games will be played according to the places of the QT.(If it's possible the games should be played in the same time.)
Game1:1st vs. 8th
Game2:2nd vs. 7th
Game3:3rd vs. 6th
Game4:4th vs. 5th

There will be played 2-2 games on each table.Rules:10min,swap2,no undo.If the game ends as draw(1-1), the players will play one more game with a special rule.It's called SHAPE rule--->There are 4 positions with 50-50 chances,positions are made by
computer,chances are mathematically counted by computer(both black and white has the same chances).All position contains 5 stones (3 blacks + 2 whites).The first player can choose the opening,the second player can choose the colours(with black or white he/she would play).
The 4 openings of Shape rule(I write coordinates,if someone wants I can send it renlib.)
Opening 1. :1.e8 2.f9 3.d7 4.d9 5.e10
Opening 2. :1.e7 2.e6 3.d4 4.f8 5.g8
Opening 3. :1.e5 2.e6 3.g7 4.f6 5.c6
Opening 4. :1.d4 2.e5 3.f6 4.f7 5.e6

3.)The semi-final(date is questionable yet)
There are 4 players fighting to get into the FINAL.
The winner of Game1 in the 2nd stage of the tournament will play against the winner of Game4.
The winner of Game2 in the 2nd stage of the tournament will play against the winner of Game3.
They will play again 2-2 games.Rules:15min,swap2,no undo.If the game ends as draw(1-1), the players will play one more game with SHAPE rule.(Details of this rule are written at the section of 2nd stage of the tournament).
The 2 winners get into the FINAL.

4.)The FINAL
There will be the 2 best players of the tournament fighting to win the cup.
Rules:20min,swap2,no undo.The finalists will play 6 games in 3 days.They will play 2 games on a day.If it's possible to these 2 players, the games of the final should be played on 3 days following each other,in the same time,for example at 20.00.
If the final match is draw,the players will play one more game with Shape rule.
The winner of the FINAL match is the winner of the whole tournament:)


The tournament will be started only if there will be at least 20 players registered.If not,i would not organise it.There is no any tournament fee.Every game must be played on www.kurnik.org.This would be the schedule of the tournament.Everyone is welcome to this tournament,there is no any limitations.

!!IF YOU WANT TO TAKE PART ON THIS TOURNAMENT,YOU MUST REGISTER VIA E-MAIL.Send an e-mail to elrarand@msn.com with the following datas:your username,your real name(,your opinion,proposation about the tournament).It's very important to register yourself via e-mail because only those players can take part who send a mail!!

I'm waiting your registrations,opinions,suggestions.Maybe we can discuss about the idea of this tournament.If you don't understand something,f.e. about the shape rule,you can send me a mail or we can also discuss about the whole tournament here.

Greetings,Attila

[Muchal]

dobry pomysł ja sie zapisze

[ermijo]

Zasady sa nieco zagmatwane, a już narzucanie otwarć - to porażka totalna. Jakby odbyło się coś na zasadach choćby IPP dla wszystkich nacji wstęp wolny(1950+ pi razy oko do kwadratu), zgłosiłbym chęć udziału, ale takie rozgrywki w okresie wakacji staja pod znakiem zapytania.

Przypominam się turniej jokinga, który był jednorazowym turniejem na kurniku, można by to powtórzyć - no ale komu by się chciało skoro nie ma nagród.

[bad_mojo]

[templar]

[soul_reaper]

He's not. To check all (I mean literally all moves) not only the 'possibly good' moves you would need a lot of computing power. Not the power that one has got at home. To count it on personal computer would take (it's just a lucky guess, but call it an informed one) years for one opening. So, what has been done, is that nobody found a sure win here, yet

[templar]

Ha! And why do you believe that there is sure win? Do you have any proof that there are no balanced openings? This is what I am talking about. And who knows? Maybe Attila (or someone he knows) checked that actually it is balanced opening (using lots of computers and good algorythms - there's no sense in checking all possible solutions - it can be done). I'm talking about mojo's reaction:

Cytat:

I thought you were quite inteligent, and now you write something like this.

So mojo says that Attila is wrong and he can prove this, right? Because if he can't, then he's talking bullshit.

templar

[Muchal]

But if Attila choosed this openings, he should know them well so it is not fair

Bad Mojo łatwo jest pisać ze coś ktoś robi źle, zrób coś sam potem dopiero krytykuj

pozdro

[Attila]

Maybe I was too lazy and I dared to write that black and white has the same chances in those openings.In my opinion it's impossible to create a total equal position with exactly 50%-50% chances.But those 4 positions aren't surewins for sure,and I belive it's hard to win with both color if you're opponent is not the weakest one.In the case of Shape ruled game the 2 players won't be weak because they're already qualyfied.And I tried to keep the chances as fair as I could.This is why the first player can choose the opening,the second one can choose the colours.As I wrote,I'd be happy if we could discuss everything about my suggestion of tournament.If you don't like my proposation,offer better or prove why is it bullshit and if you're right, I can change.
And it's a bit strange that you're talking about intelligence and my e-mail adress:)
I created my article because I want to organise a really good tournament with brilliant games.May we'd talk about it,nothing else.

[Attila]

Yeah,it's me who choosed the openings.If you want I can show all the 16 openings, but in my opinion these 4 are more than enough and these 4 positions are suitable to play with.I think it would be too complicated if players could choose from more than 4 positions.If rules stay the same,it will be also a bit complicated..Between, I never played any game from these positions:)If you think it's not fair,I can change.

[Paveo]

dobra dobra wszystko ładnie pieknie, z grobsza wiem o co chodzi ale moja angielszczyzna nie pozwala mi wtracic sie w rozmowe, ale jakby ktos mogł w 3 zdaniach napisac o co chodzi, byłbym wdzieczny

[bad_mojo]

@ Templar, to nie ja mam udowadniać, że one nie są zbalansowane, tylko on, że są. Ewentualnie, możesz Ty mi to udowodnić, jeżeli tak bardzo chcesz.

I think the second player has an advantage, maybe two players should eliminate one by one oppenings from, let's say, 10 available, so that at the end only one stays and is played. And maybe they should then draw, who actually chooses the color.

[angst]

Attila - such tournament is a great idea. However, if openings are chosen by you, it is too big advantage for you, as you probably know all possible variations and it could be hard to learn it fast for other players.

I think now it is impossible to prove if there is any balanced opening and if there are some.

I am wondering - if we play 15 min - is swap2 not enough?

Kind regards

Angst

P.S. Bad i Temp - przestańcie się kłócić, bo możecie sprowokować admina Proponuję założenie tematu: "Dowód na (nie)istnienie wyównanego otwarcia w gomoku". Ten dotyczy turnieju i na tym poprzestańmy.

[Muchal]

Attila, you can also change a rules of your tournament. for example, in play-offs there will win a player who first reach 3 pionts(won-1,draw-0,5 , lose-0).This player who had better place in qualifications, he will open first game, i think it is good idea:)

[Attila]

Seems my proposation with shape rule won't be successfull.I understand your reaction and I agree,thanks for offering.I think my first suggestion for the tournament was a bit complicated.So I should make it simpler.If there is a draw match between the8players or between the 4 players maybe the player who got the higher place in the qualification tournament could be the first player,who opens the third,decisive game.If that ends as draw than one more game with the opening of the other player.What do you think?I think it's simpler and better.There will be a bigger motivation to get the first place in the qualification tournament and I think it's also good because the QT itself will be a brilliant tour if there will be enough players.And this rule avoids my fake advantage in knowing openings:P
what do you think?
Between,I hope it's worthy to plan the rules cause if there won't be enough players,tour won't be organised.May it should be announced at as many sites as possible.