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Dołączył: 04 Paź 2004
Posty: 3727
Skąd: Wrocław
Wysłany: 2017-06-03, 13:38   

Denis poddał partię po 20. ruchach. Zagrał słabo i nie wyciągałbym z tego daleko idących wniosków.

Trwa druga partia - https://logic-games.spb.ru/gomoku/?lang=en
 
 
sandra113 

Dołączyła: 23 Kwi 2016
Posty: 156
Skąd: Australia
Wysłany: 2017-06-04, 23:37   

Here is the outcome of the experiment: Denis quickly lost his game because of a calculation mistake, resigning when 19 stones were on the board, and agreed to play a second game under the same conditions as the first one. He lost his second game, too. In the latter game, however, he achieved a highly advantageous position, which Yixin evaluates as about 200 in Denis' favour, which means a very high probability of Denis having a sure win, but such a high score is achieved only starting at depth 16, so the position is not easy to convert to a victory, especially against a program. Being on his way to a victory but having less than half an hour left and still a huge amount of calculation work ahead, Denis again made a calculation mistake, giving Yixin a few-moves-long win, and resigned after Yixin's response.

The games have been copied to playok.com so that everyone can conveniently have a look at them. The links are below.

First game: https://www.playok.com/en...m&pid=124991056

Second game: https://www.playok.com/en...m&pid=124991104

A couple of conclusions from this experiment:

1. Strategic, positional play is a real thing. Denis calculated considerably less deeply than the program, but built a huge advantage admitted by Yixin.

2. Such positional play requires reliable calculation because the player often has to choose moves that almost give a win to the opponent. It is like walking at the edge of an abyss. And it is not easy to play that flawlessly - Denis, who occupies the 11th line on the world ranking list, made a calculation mistake in both games. Without reliable calculation at each step, an attempt to positionally outplay the opponent will likely result in giving him a local, tactical win. The opponent will just have to pick the fruit.

Any opinions about the games and conclusions?

P.S. As the games will disappear from playok.com in 6 months, here is the record:

First game: Yixin - Osipov 1. b14 c13 2. c11 white 3. - e9 4. d11 f11 5. e12 d12 6. e11 b11 7. f13 g14 8. e10 c10 9. h10 d9 10. e8 f9 11. g9 1-0

Second game: Yixin - Osipov 1. c14 b13 2. d14 white 3. - e12 4. e10 g11 5. f10 d10 6. e11 f9 7. c11 c13 8. d9 e8 9. h11 i10 10. d12 f14 11. c8 b7 12. d7 i9 13. c9 c7 14. e6 f5 15. h10 h8 16. f6 d8 17. h9 i7 18. i8 j7 19. f13 e13 20. d13 1-0
 
 
sandra113 

Dołączyła: 23 Kwi 2016
Posty: 156
Skąd: Australia
Wysłany: 2017-06-06, 12:49   

Today the experiment "human vs program" will be continued - Gergő will play against Yixin at 21:00 Warsaw time on https://logic-games.spb.ru/gomoku/?lang=en :) The time control will be 60+30.

Gergő is the current champion of Hungary and won the silver medal of the last World Championship. He is second on the world ranking list, having 1912 points. Last season he showed the highest efficiency in the Euroleague (counting only those who played more than 20 games) - 83.3%. He is also the current leader of the IRP championship.

Will one of the very best players in the world beat the program? How will Gergő's approach differ from Nirvana's? Come watch :)

Everyone is also invited to join the chat at https://vk.com/app5747634_-19499145 to discuss the game in real time with experts. Last time this chat was joined by many strong players such as Dmitry Epifanov and Ilya Muratov. To join the chat, registration on vk.com or membership of vk.com/gomoku may be technically required.

Rules: swap2 gomoku, overlines not counting as wins. The operator (who will be me) will put a corner opening on behalf of Yixin, and Gergő will not know in advance exactly which corner opening will be put. All subsequent moves against Gergő will be made by Yixin, and the operator will not interfere with its work in any way. In Yixin's options, the operator will set the restriction of 60 minutes per game, so Yixin itself will manage its time. The laptop on which Yixin will be run is quite standard (Lenovo Thinkpad T510). Gergő is allowed to use only his brain, i.e., he is allowed only to look at the board shown on the screen and click. He is not allowed to use programs to analyse a position, use libraries, written notes, literature, analyse a position on a real or virtual board by placing stones, get hints from other people, etc.

Here is how you can watch the game:

1. Go to https://logic-games.spb.ru/gomoku/?lang=en

A menu with four options will pop up.

2. In the menu, under "Welcome," click on the right button ("Play as a guest"), unless you want to register or use an existing account. After you click on that button, a short non-translated Russian text will appear below it. Click on the button just below that text. (This button just means that you understand the limitations of using a guest account and agree to proceed.)

3. To make the board look like on playok.com, click on "Options" below the board. Then, under "Marks," select "Stones" and then click on "OK" below.

4. To avoid highly distracting invitations to play, click on "Options" (under the board), select "Do not invite me to the game," and click on "OK."

5. In the upper left corner, click on "In Game" and find the game being played by Gergő. He will be on the nickname vessago, and the nickname he will play against is Yix.

Come watch :)

 
 
sandra113 

Dołączyła: 23 Kwi 2016
Posty: 156
Skąd: Australia
Wysłany: 2017-06-09, 00:42   

He did it! Gergő beat Yixin! Gergő played safely and accurately, not sharpening the position and not giving the program any chance, and positionally outplayed Yixin, accumulating resources on the right flank and letting the program dig its own grave on the left one. And Gergő was able to convert his huge positional advantage to a win - in the end, he played a nice VCT consisting of 10 stones of his colour to the winning fork!

This inspiring victory is a perfect demonstration of the existence of strategic, positional play. The program calculated deeper in terms of local tactics, but was soundly outplayed strategically.

The game has been copied to playok.com, and here is the link, enjoy: https://www.playok.com/en...m&pid=125040722

And this perfectly demonstrates why "ultimate gomoku," i.e., games with a long time control in which both players are allowed to use everything, including programs, makes sense - a pure program, not supported by a human player's strategic thinking, will always lose, as Gergő demonstrated that a pure program can be beaten even with bare hands! So ultimate gomoku may become one of important genres of online gomoku in the future. Half a year ago, Dmitry Epifanov and Alex Popiel played such a game with the time control 120+30, attracting about five dozens of spectators and showing exceptionally high quality of play. The game eventually ended in Alex Popiel's favour.

Strategic, positional play is an Achilles heel of gomoku programs!

P.S. As the playok copy of the game between Gergő and Yixin will disappear in 6 months, here is the record:

Yixin - Gergő 1. c12 d13 2. e13 black 3. e10 f10 4. g11 f11 5. f9 g8 6. e8 d7 7. g9 h9 8. f7 e7 9. g5 h5 10. g10 i12 11. h6 i7 12. f6 f5 13. g6 i6 14. g4 g3 15. i5 g12 16. j4 k3 17. f4 d4 18. d6 e6 19. c8 c10 20. f12 f8 21. k5 i3 22. j5 j3 23. h3 k6 24. j7 j8 25. c9 e9 26. i10 k10 27. d10 e11 28. e3 d2 29. l6 j11 30. l9 j9 31. l11 j12 32. j10 k12 33. h12 k9 34. i4 h4 35. k11 l12 36. m12 h13 37. g14 j15 38. i14 j14 39. j13 m11 40. l10 k13 41. n10 i15 0-1
 
 
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Członek Zarządu


Dołączył: 04 Paź 2004
Posty: 3727
Skąd: Wrocław
Wysłany: 2017-07-31, 21:24   

W trakcie mistrzostw świata, ówczesny obrońca tytułu Rudolf Dupszki (dupsky) rozegrał dwie partie z programem Yixin. Czas na grę wynosił 120 minut + 30 sekund za ruch. Zapis wygranego przez Yixin meczu (2-0) możecie obejrzeć tutaj.

Na gomokuworld z kolei znajdziecie artykuł Bano o tym pojedynku :)
 
 
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