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Euroliga 2017/2018
Autor Wiadomość
zukole 
Członek Zarządu


Dołączył: 04 Paź 2004
Posty: 3714
Skąd: Wrocław
Wysłany: 2017-10-06, 22:39   Euroliga 2017/2018

Przedsezonowa ankieta - https://vk.com/wall-19499145_2278
 
 
angst 
Viceprezes
Kapitan IRP

Dołączył: 28 Kwi 2004
Posty: 4808
Skąd: Płock
Wysłany: 2017-12-05, 23:32   

Wczoraj wystartowały zapisy do nowego sezonu Euroligi:

http://euroleague.cz/php/news.php

Rozgrywki odbywać się będą ponownie na serwerze Piskvorky.net z czasem na grę 10 minut + 3 sekundy.

W imieniu Komisji Euroligi zachęcam wszystkich do udziału! Nowy sezon wystartuje 18 grudnia.

Pozdrawiam

Angst
 
 
 
sandra113 

Dołączyła: 23 Kwi 2016
Posty: 153
Skąd: England
Wysłany: 2017-12-10, 07:35   

I collected some interesting statistics about the Euroleague and would like to share them with you.



I also calculated the statistical uncertainties for the data shown in the above graph. To put it simply, the statistical uncertainty shows how much different the efficiency realistically could be as a result of chance. Here is the above graph with the uncertainties superimposed on it:


(A comment for specialists: To calculate the uncertainties, I assumed binomial distributions.)

We see that three players stand out of the trend, and these players are Zoli, Zukole, and Alicecooper.

Concerning Zoli and Zukole, I find it not surprising that they stand out, because they are truly outstanding blitz players - for instance, Zukole won the 3rd place in the WBC 2017 as well as the 1st place in the blitz tournament of the Polish championship in 2016, while Zoli won the 1st place in the WBC 2017 as well as the 1st place in the blitz tournament of the world championship this year.

Being curious how good Alicecooper is at blitz, I found that he earned the 5th place out of 9 participants in the blitz tournament of the Polish championship this year and the 7th place out of 10 participants in the blitz tournament of the Polish championship last year. His efficiency in each of those blitz tournaments was exactly 50% (if Vince's walkover is not counted). Both this year and last year, his performance in the main tournament was better than in the blitz tournament. The time control in the blitz tournaments was 5+2, which is qualitatively similar to the time control in the Euroleague, 10+3.

I am not accusing anyone of anything, but am puzzled how one can one play in the Euroleague much stronger relative to others than in live blitz tournaments with a comparable time control. Once again, this post is not an accusation, but rather to share interesting statistics and also to express my puzzlement. After all, there is nothing wrong in sharing facts and statistics.
 
 
alicecooper 
Skarbnik

Dołączył: 06 Maj 2004
Posty: 2166
Skąd: Warszawa
Wysłany: 2017-12-10, 11:07   

jeśli dla ciebie blitz 5 min na żywo jest podobny do 10 min na kurniku
to znaczy ze nic nie wiesz o gomoku
i się kompromitujesz
jeśli z takim samym "znawstwem" zrobiłeś wykresy to szkoda gadać

a niezależnie od insynuacji prawdą jest że zagrałem ostatnie sezony lepiej
1) w swoich otwarciach postawiłem na jeden open, który znam bardzo dobrze
(wcześniej grałem więcej rożnych)
2) do przeciwników w 95% dostawiałem
(wcześniej zazwyczaj wybierałem kolor)

ot i cała tajemnica:)
gry są na piskvorkach każdy może obejrzeć :)

szczerze mówiąc jesteś obrzydliwa w tym podjudzaniu
  
 
 
sandra113 

Dołączyła: 23 Kwi 2016
Posty: 153
Skąd: England
Wysłany: 2017-12-10, 17:25   

Alice, look what Valery Kondratyev publicly wrote today on this matter:


(Click on the image to properly see it.)
(Link to the post: https://vk.com/topic-19499145_36028034?post=39097 )

Here is my translation:

- begin of the translation -

I agree with Sandra about Cooper. Cooper cheated in the Euroleague, at least in the match against us. And all our players noticed that. Clearly prog combos and timing in the match. The stink of a prog in those games could be smelt from a mile away.

- end of the translation -

Look what Denis Osipov publicly wrote about you about half a year ago:


(Again, click on the image to properly see it.)
(Link to the post: https://vk.com/topic-19499145_34638538?post=26101 )

Here is my translation:

- begin of the translation -

Ilya, I cannot give concrete facts. I can say for sure that the committee never strives to identify problems. Consider Cooper. Rumours and legends about his wonderful play in this season have apparently reached all players who talk at least a bit with other Euroleague participants. For an experienced player, it is enough to have a look at 2-3 games of his to say 99 per cent sure that he simply sits with Yixin. If Sandra was in the committee, Alice would be thrown away from the Euroleague long ago. But the existing committee pretends that nothing is happening. The same goes for literally every issue. Everything is done only under the whiplash, when there is no way whatsoever to ignore the problem and let it drop.

- end of the translation -

Look what Ilya Muratov publicly wrote:


(Again, click on the image to properly see it.)
(Link to the post: https://vk.com/topic-19499145_34803934?post=25851 )

Here is my translation:

- begin of the translation -

The Euroleague as it was did not bring joy in the last years, but after Alice's deeds the desire to participate in it entirely disappeared.

- end of the translation -

Andrey Litvinenko added his like under Ilya Muratov's post.

It is not evil Sandra who wrote the aforequoted posts. They were written by very reputable and respectable members of the Russian gomoku community.

In your post above, you explain your success in the Euroleague by a new approach about openings, but I wonder why this approach did not bring you similar success in live blitz tournaments.
  
 
 
alicecooper 
Skarbnik

Dołączył: 06 Maj 2004
Posty: 2166
Skąd: Warszawa
Wysłany: 2017-12-11, 02:48   

Właśnie pobrałem Yixin
ustawiłem poziom 4 dan gomoku freestyle
(dla ruchów dokładnie takich jak yixin dodaję +)
moje gry z valkonem (Valery Kondratyev):

http://www.piskvorky.net/...lkon&value=9403

open_v 04 05 06+07 08 09 10+
11+12 13 14+15 16+17+18+19 20+
21+22 23+24+25+26 27 28 29 30
31+32+33+34 35+36+37+38 39 40
41+42 43+44+45 46 47+48+49+50+
51 52 53 54+55 56 57+58+59 60
61 62 63 64+65 66+67 68+69 70+
71 72+73 74+

ruchy Yixin:
valkon, czarne: 14
alice, białe: 20

od 66 ruchu zaczyna się vcf (valkon nie blokuje, więc ruchy "nie yixin")
ruchy yixin, bez vcf:
valkon, czarne: 14
alice, białe: 13


http://www.piskvorky.net/...lkon&value=9398

open_a 04 05 06 07+08 09 10+
11 12 13+14 15 16+17+18+19+20+
21+22+23+24 25+26+27+28+29 30+
31+32+33 34+35+36+37 38+

ruchy Yixin
valkon, czarne: 10
alice, białe: 12

widzę, że od 22 ruchu Yixin znalazł vcf, ja nie; /
więc vcf zaczyna się od 30 ruchu
ruchy yixin, bez vcf:
valkon, czarne: 8
alice, białe: 7


Nie sądzę, żeby wyniki były znacząco różne w innych ustawieniach

wniosek: zwycięzcą w konkursie yixin jest?: gratulacje valkon :)
w rzeczywistości nie myślę, że jest winny, ale wynik pokazuje valkon 22:20 alice
do Valerija: przeproś

Sandra ohydnie mnie oskarżasz, dam ci szansę, zbadaj wszystkie moje gry, jeśli nie pokażesz rzeczywistego podobieństwa do yixina (czy jakiegoś innego) (a wiem że nie) poproszę o ban dla ciebie we wszystkich miejscach

------------------------

i just download yixin
set level 4 dan gomoku freestyle
(for moves exactly like yixin i add +)
i take my games with valkon (Valery Kondratyev):

http://www.piskvorky.net/...lkon&value=9403

open_v 04 05 06+07 08 09 10+
11+12 13 14+15 16+17+18+19 20+
21+22 23+24+25+26 27 28 29 30
31+32+33+34 35+36+37+38 39 40
41+42 43+44+45 46 47+48+49+50+
51 52 53 54+55 56 57+58+59 60
61 62 63 64+65 66+67 68+69 70+
71 72+73 74+

yixin moves
valkon, black : 14
alice, white : 20

from 66 move starts vcf (valkon not block so moves "not yixin")
yixin moves without vcf:
valkon, black : 14
alicec, white : 13


http://www.piskvorky.net/...lkon&value=9398

open_a 04 05 06 07+08 09 10+
11 12 13+14 15 16+17+18+19+20+
21+22+23+24 25+26+27+28+29 30+
31+32+33 34+35+36+37 38+

yixin moves
valkon, black : 10
alicec, white : 12

i see that from 22 move yixin find vcf, i not;/
so vcf starts from 30 move
yixin moves without vcf:
valkon, black : 8
alicec, white : 7


i dont think that results can be significant different in other settings

conclusion: winner in yixin competition is : congrat valkon :)
in fact i dont think he is guilty, but score shows valkon 22:20 alice
to Valerij: you should apologize

Sandra, you are filthy to accuse me, I will give you a chance, examine all my games, if you do not show real similarity to yixin (or any other) (and I know you will not) I will ask for ban for you in all places
  
 
 
alicecooper 
Skarbnik

Dołączył: 06 Maj 2004
Posty: 2166
Skąd: Warszawa
Wysłany: 2017-12-11, 10:28   

(Denis Osipov) benirvana-alice

http://www.piskvorky.net/...erpl&value=9407
open_a 04 05 06 07 08+09+10+
11 12 13 14+15+16 17 18 19 20+
21+22+23+24+25 26 27 28+29 30
31+32 33+34+
vct from 28
nirvana, black: 6, without final vct: 4
alice, white: 8, without final vct: 6

http://www.piskvorky.net/...erpl&value=9411
open_n 04 05 06 07+08+09+10+
11 12+13+14 15 16+17+18 19 20+
21 22 23 24 25 26+27+28+29+30+
31 32+33 34 35 36 37+
vct from 24
nirvana, white: 9, without final vct: 5
alice, black: 7, without final vct: 4

yixin moves (without final vct's) : nirvana-alice 9:10 (first 4:6, second 5:4)

i to są ci dwaj "świadkowie" sandry?
  
 
 
Magda 


Dołączyła: 27 Kwi 2010
Posty: 472
Skąd: Katowice
Wysłany: 2017-12-11, 11:34   

Świadkowie Jehowy
_________________
...
 
 
 
Chaosu 


Dołączył: 28 Kwi 2004
Posty: 1190
Skąd: Warszawa
Wysłany: 2017-12-11, 18:16   

. . .Mam kamienie gotowe tylko nie wiem w końcu w kogo rzucać.
_________________
now back to the Gene Krupa syncopated style
 
 
 
sandra113 

Dołączyła: 23 Kwi 2016
Posty: 153
Skąd: England
Wysłany: 2017-12-13, 00:12   

Okay guys, it is time to show you some other interesting things about this matter :) The post is long, but it is worth reading it :)

alicecooper napisał/a:
I will give you a chance, examine all my games, if you do not show real similarity to yixin (or any other) (and I know you will not) I will ask for ban for you in all places

Let us have a look at this game of Alicecooper against Valery Kondratyev: http://www.piskvorky.net/...erpl&value=9398

All moves by Alicecooper from 8-L9 to 36-H12 coincide with Yixin at one or another depth of analysis, and here are the specifics:

8-L9: Yixin suggests this move at depth 6 (0.2 seconds), depth 10 (4.5 seconds), and depth 11 (8.6 seconds).
10-L7: Yixin suggests this move starting from depth 5.
12-L10: Yixin suggests this move starting from depth 7, which takes 0.5 seconds.
14-M8: Yixin suggests this move at depths 6, 7, and 8. At the other depths, Yixin suggests merely the opposite order of moves, that is, to first play the move that Alicecooper actually played after playing M8, and then to play M8. This does not change anything.
16-J11: Yixin suggests this move starting from depth 5.
18-L11: Yixin suggests this move starting from depth 5.
20-K11: Yixin suggests this move starting from depth 5.
22-L12: Yixin suggests this move starting from depth 6, which takes 1.4 seconds, and at depth 9 says it is a winning move.
24-M11: Yixin suggests this move starting from depth 5, and at depth 7 says it is a winning move.
26-J14: Yixin suggests this move at depth 7 in 2.5 seconds and says it is a winning move.
28-J12: Yixin suggests this move at depth 5 in 0.4 seconds and says it is a winning move.
30-i13: depth 5, an obvious win
32-N12: depth 4, an obvious win
34-K12: depth 1, an obvious win
36-H12: depth 1, an obvious win

You can easily verify these results yourself, and here are the settings and the program's version:
Yixin2015 (Engine 0.4.50 with GUI 1.6, can be downloaded from: http://www.aiexp.info/pages/yixin.html )
Rule: Standard gomoku
Style: 1 (i.e., the default one)

You have to set the level to "Unlimited time" and open the log window to see which move Yixin suggests at which depth/time.

The winning combination Alicecooper played in this game is very spectacular, and Valery Kondratyev stated yesterday that Alicecooper played pretty quickly from 14-M8 to the end. Here is Valery's post:


(Click on the image to see it properly.)
(Link to the post: https://vk.com/topic-19499145_36028034?post=39135 )

My translation:

- begin of the translation -

The second game was a circus. There, white has a sure win already after move 11, but this win is difficult to find at this time control. Move 12 is Yixin's main branch. And what follows is a spectacular attack (played pretty quickly) that is 24 moves long!

- end of the translation -

The other games of Alicecooper in the match between "Demons and Wizards" and "Dasha and Bears" seem not really conclusive (although suspicious to an extent), but it is not surprising: Blindly and massively copying Yixin's moves in all games is not how an experienced player like Alicecooper would cheat. For example, Fudjin (Alexander Miroshnichenko), who recently publicly confessed his cheating in the Euroleague, Rustournament, and White Meijin, explained that in most games, he used his program only to sometimes verify whether there is a win, making most moves on his own. And here is his opinion about detecting cheating:


(Click on the image to see it properly.)
(Link to the post: https://vk.com/topic-19499145_36002319?post=34193 )

My translation:

- begin of the translation -

Sandra, I can say, as a former cheater, that cheating is impossible to detect. It is an online game, and here everyone decides himself how to play. You can only hope that your opponent plays fair against you.

One can cheat by taking a look at the theory in the opening stage, by running a program on a different device, or by using a friend's help, and there are many other possibilities.

There are many ways to cheat, and no measures will help you detect cheating. If someone decides to cheat against Lamaza, and if the level of that someone is 1900+ (which is a bit higher than yours), you will not be able to prove or understand whether he cheats or not.

Concerning me, it is a bit different story as I have a history of cheating on vk, and this affected the decision about me.

- end of the translation -

Some programs show a list of playable moves for a given position, and you can cheat by simply picking any move from the list. If you cheat in this way, no one will be able to prove your cheating unless you play the program's first choice too often.

I point out that there are indirect signs, which, taken all collectively, cast doubt on Alicecooper's fair play:

1. A considerable number of strong reputable players suspect Alicecooper of cheating, based on intuitive feelings they experienced during their games against him. In addition to the Russians whose posts I quoted in this thread above, a well-known Hungarian player, Kristof Menesi, publicly stated in his Kurnik profile that he suspects Alicecooper of cheating:


(Click on the image to see it properly.)
(Link to the profile: https://www.playok.com/en...=pekingg&gid=gm )

You know, a famous saying goes, "There is no smoke without fire." Some years ago, people suspected Usiek, who later confessed his cheating (and definitely became a fair player). People suspected Fudjin, and he recently confessed his cheating, too. Now people suspect Alicecooper.

2. As I explained earlier in this thread, the results of Alicecooper in the Euroleague seem too good to be true. Last season he showed approximately the same efficiency in the Euroleague as Zoli did, but Zoli is the world champion in live gomoku as well as in online one-minute gomoku.

After all, don't you find it suspicious that a player earns 6.5 points out of 8 at the expense of four players who are 100-200 Elo points above him on the world ranking list? I am talking about Alicecooper's performance in the match between "Demons and Wizards" and "Dasha and Bears" in the last season. Moreover, before the last game of these eight games Alicooper had earned 6.5 points out of 7, and possibly the last game was unimportant.

3. Alicecooper refuses to play one-minute games, in which it is practically impossible to cheat without making it obvious.

Now let me respond to some remarks of Alicecooper :)

alicecooper napisał/a:
i just download yixin

Is it easy to believe that such an experienced player did not have Yixin? :) How did he analyse openings and games before last Sunday? :)

alicecooper napisał/a:
set level 4 dan gomoku freestyle

Freestyle means that overlines count as wins, and is thus a wrong option here :) The correct option is standard gomoku.

alicecooper napisał/a:
conclusion: winner in yixin competition is : congrat valkon :)
in fact i dont think he is guilty, but score shows valkon 22:20 alice

As I explained above, such arguments don't tell anything. Alicecooper well may have cheated in a smart way.

alicecooper napisał/a:
Sandra, you are filthy to accuse me

Are Denis Osipov, Valery Kondratyev, Kristof Menesi, and Ilya Muratov filthy, too? :)

And I have not accused Alicecooper, at least not yet. I merely provided statistics and facts and quoted some respectable players, acting as a reporter rather than as a prosecutor. I let everyone decide how likely it is that Alicecooper has cheated. There is absolutely nothing dishonest in my behaviour.

And I believe that things like suspicions of cheating should be discussed openly rather than secretly disseminated via private messages!

P.S. On this forum, I have already exposed cheating of two guys, Eviscerate and Fudjin, and both of them later publicly admitted to their cheating. Here are my posts in which I exposed their cheating:
http://forum.gomoku.pl/viewtopic.php?t=2433
http://forum.gomoku.pl/viewtopic.php?p=57915#57915
So take my words seriously.
  
 
 
alicecooper 
Skarbnik

Dołączył: 06 Maj 2004
Posty: 2166
Skąd: Warszawa
Wysłany: 2017-12-13, 07:24   

1) miałem format dysku to ściągnąłem yixin ze strony dla pewności że najnowszy, co w tym dziwnego?
inna sprawa akurat rzadko do niego zaglądałem
2) tak, pomyliłem się, po instalacji zostawiłem domyślne ustawienia - freestyle
zrobiłem od nowa analizę dla ustawień standard,
3) twoje wyjaśnienia są nic nie warte
na najprostszym przykładzie: jeśli by była zwykła trójka: xxx
to program zanalizuje i pokaże na jakichś poziomach zapewne oba końce
w bardziej złożonych sytuacjach: kilka dobrych ruchów
jeśli wybierasz sobie ruchy z tego poziomu z którego akurat pasuje
to w ten sposób możesz udowodnić że każda gra była zagrana z ixinem
4) jak na razie widzę oskarża mnie 3 kolesi z jednej drużyny
i peking który przez rok nie rozumie że znałem, jego dostawkę, i nie może się z tym pogodzić
-------------------------

okazało się że po zainstalowaniu zostawiłem domyśle ustawienia yixin (freestyle)
mój błąd, ponownie zanalizowałem dla: yixin, standard gomoku, level:4dan, style:1, resource:19
wybrałem 4 dan bo chyba na dowolnym komputerze powinny być takie same wyniki?

----------valkon
http://www.piskvorky.net/...lkon&value=9403

open_v 06+07 08 09 10+
11+12 13+14+15 16+17+18+19 20+
21+22 23+24+25+26 27 28 29+30+
31+32+33+34+35+36+37+38 39 40
41+42+43+44+45 46 47+48+49+50+
51 52 53 54+55 56 57+58+59 60+
61 62 63 64+65 66+67 68+69+70+
71 72+73 74
vct from 66
valkon, black: yixin moves: 17; without final vct: 16
alice, white: yixin moves: 23; without final vct: 18

http://www.piskvorky.net/...lkon&value=9398

open_a 04 05 06 07+08+09 10+
11+12 13+14 15 16+17+18+19+20+
21 22+23+24+25+26+27 28+29+30+
31+32+33 34+35+36+37 38+

vct from 20
valkon, black: yixin moves: 10; without final vct: 5
alice, white: yixin moves: 14; without final vct: 4

----------nirvana
http://www.piskvorky.net/...erpl&value=9407

open_a 04 05 06 07 08+09+10+
11 12 13 14+15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22+23+24+25 26+27 28+29 30
31+32 33+34+
vct from 28
nirvana, black: yixin moves: 4, without final vct: 2
alice, white: yixin moves: 8, without final vct: 6

http://www.piskvorky.net/...erpl&value=9411

open_n 06 07+08+09+10
11 12+13+14 15+16+17+18 19+20+
21 22 23 24 25+26+27+28+29+30+
31 32+33 34 35+36 37+
vct from 25
nirvana, white: yixin moves: 8, without final vct: 4
alice, black: yixin moves: 9, without final vct: 6

----------furla
http://www.piskvorky.net/...erpl&value=9395

open_furla 06 07 08+09 10
11 12+13 14 15+16 17+18+19 20
21 22 23+24 25+26 27+28 29+30+
31+32+33+34 35 36+37+38 39+40+
41+42 43+44 45+46 47
vct from 27
furla, white: yixin moves: 7; without final vct: 3
alice, black: yixin moves: 15; without final vct: 4
 
 
Magda 


Dołączyła: 27 Kwi 2010
Posty: 472
Skąd: Katowice
Wysłany: 2017-12-13, 10:05   

Drama lepsza niż na YouTube.

Ewidentnie widać, że macie coś do siebie i stąd powstał owy konflikt.

Szkoda, że POLACY, którzy plotkują na temat wspomagania się Alica nie mają odwagi się teraz odezwać, a rękę na turnieju podają.

Może niech się wypowiedzą eksperci od gry progiem? :mrgreen:


"Widzisz, konflikt zawsze zaczyna się od jakiejś kwestii spornej – różnicy zdań, kłótni. Jednak zanim przerodzi się w wojnę, kwestia, której dotyczył spór nie jest już istotna, ponieważ rozchodzi się już tylko i wyłącznie o jedną rzecz: jak bardzo każda ze stron nienawidzi się wzajemnie".

Neal Shusterman
_________________
...
 
 
 
alicecooper 
Skarbnik

Dołączył: 06 Maj 2004
Posty: 2166
Skąd: Warszawa
Wysłany: 2017-12-13, 16:22   

peking przedstawił swoją skargę na mnie
https://vk.com/doc372140299_455116719?hash=8966e3900522f07e01&dl=f002ec83e4b3e721a8
i bardzo dobrze, bo w końcu mogę wytłumaczyć
-----------------------------
peking dostawił I8 - grałem podobną grę z I8 parę dni wcześniej (przed grą z nim) - sam dałem I8, i była zapisana na playok, gdyby wcześniej złożył zażalenie to by jeszcze nie była skasowana, no ale co zrobić, przepadło
-----------------------------
dodanie kamienia na k12
pierwsze pytanie: jak mogą atakować czarne - a dowolnie tam wokół 1 i 5 kamienia
a białe? tak naprawdę k6 żeby było skrzyżowanie

wtedy, stanęło mi przed oczami, otwarcie "viraga"
ono jest na polskiej stronie od lat (w pliku .rar jest 2010, ale to było jedno z pierwszych, no nieważne : http://gomoku.pl/joomla/i.../f8-h10-j8.zip)
sandra wyśmiewała mnie na forum, że gram na playok ze słabymi, to prawda gram z każdym kto przyjdzie i ze słabymi też, i oni mają takie problemy :) - jak open viraga, to nie pozwala mi zapomnieć

popatrzcie na sytuację na diagramach (virag.gif, peking.gif): mi się kojarzy i tyle

upewniłem się, czy zablokuję czarne, jak będzie taka sytuacja jak na diagramie peking.gif
i postawiłem j7 - bo po k6 każdy widzi że białe by dały w środek
i to w zasadzie koniec bo jest "sure win"
tak jak pisałem na forum vk
3) I know peking's "trap" for sure from 2010 (maybe 2007 or earlier) (because it is part of a very well-known other opening)
-----------------------------
pisałem jeszcze:
4) "исто надрал Пекинга, сыграв ровно так, как надо", clean lie, then I analyzed this game, it was almost straight away, a simple victory which I did not notice in the game, then there were two more times, easier winnings

ruch 16 - N10 od razu wygrana
ale ja byłem skoncentrowany żeby szukać wygranej w środku a nie na bandzie i zwyczajnie przeoczyłem
i znów ruch 18 - K7 łatwa wygrana, albo 20 - I7 też łatwa
nie wiem czemu coś mi nie pasowało i zamiast łatwych, skomplikowałem sobie grę
-----------------------------
ale pisać w tym momencie, tak jak peking, że 80 % koincydencji z yixinem u mnie, gdy robiłem błąd na błędzie to parodia
-----------------------------
a konkluzja jest taka że nie napiszę nawet o nim: lama, choć przez cały rok mnie obrażał, tylko powiem że powinien przeprosić

virag.gif
Plik ściągnięto 4 raz(y) 133,8 KB

peking.gif
Plik ściągnięto 6 raz(y) 134,54 KB

  
 
 
alicecooper 
Skarbnik

Dołączył: 06 Maj 2004
Posty: 2166
Skąd: Warszawa
Wysłany: 2017-12-13, 16:32   

peking presented his complaint to me
https://vk.com/doc372140299_455116719?hash=8966e3900522f07e01&dl=f002ec83e4b3e721a8
and very well, because I can finally explain
-----------------------------
peking added I8 - I played a similar game with I8 a few days earlier (before playing with him) - I gave I8 myself, and was saved to playok, if he had filed a complaint before it was still not deleted, but what to do, lost
-----------------------------
adding stone to k12
first question: how can they attack black - and anyway around 1 and 5 stone
and white? in fact, k6 would be an intersection

then, it was in front of my eyes "virag" open
it has been on the Polish website for years (in the .rar file is 2010, but it was one of the first, no matter: http://gomoku.pl/joomla/i.../f8-h10-j8.zip)
sandra ridiculed me on the forum that I play playok with the weak, I play with everyone who comes and with the weak too, and they have such problems :) - like virag open , it does not let me forget

Look at the situation on the diagrams (virag.gif, peking.gif): I associate it and that's it

I made sure I would block black, as it will be like in the peking.gif diagram
and I set j7 - because after d6 everyone sees that white would give in the middle
and it's basically the end because it's a "sure win"

as I wrote on the forum vk
3) I know peking's "trap" for sure from 2010 (maybe 2007 or earlier) (because it is part of a very well-known other opening)
-----------------------------
I also wrote:
4) "исто надрал Пекинга, сыграв ровно так, как надо", clean lie, then I analyzed this game, it was almost straight away, a simple victory which I did not notice in the game, then there were two more times, easier winnings

move 16 - N10 won immediately
but I was concentrated to look for a win in the middle and not on the band and just missed
and again move 18 - K7 easy win, or 20 - I7 easy too
I do not know why something did not fit me and instead of easy, I made my game complicated
-----------------------------
but to write at the moment, just like peking, that 80% of coincidences with yixin in my case, when I made a mistake on an error is a parody
-----------------------------
and the conclusion is that I will not even write about him: a lama, although he insulted me for a whole year, let me just say that he should apologize
 
 
sandra113 

Dołączyła: 23 Kwi 2016
Posty: 153
Skąd: England
Wysłany: 2017-12-14, 03:21   

Alicegate is rapidly developing! Alicecooper's games are being scrupulously analysed on the Russian forum, and here is an interesting news: Dmitry Epifanov, who analysed some games of Alicecooper and originally concluded that they indicate that Alicecooper has played fair, now has changed his mind and finds this game between Alicecooper and Denis Osipov suspicious: http://www.piskvorky.net/...erpl&value=9407

Here is the latest post by Dmitry Epifanov on that game:


(Click on the image to see it properly.)
(Link to the post: https://vk.com/topic-19499145_36028034?post=39305 )

My translation:

- begin of the translation -

Valery, yes, indeed, I mixed up two different moves. That is, it is either that my Yixin is newer or that my computer is more powerful, but it is important that the usual Yixin cannot find this win in real time at this time control. That is, the argument that Alicecooper did not play a simple win that can be easily found by a program is not valid. Thus, okay, this game raises quite a few questions, primarily the question about k11.

- end of the translation -

And here is this very suspicious move k11 made by Alicecooper:


This move is Yixin's first choice at all depths, but it is very hard to see why a human player could make this move at this time control. Dmitry Epifanov, Denis Osipov, and Valery Kondratyev made statements highlighting the very suspicious character of that move.

Now I would like to make one interesting observation.

Alicecooper collected the following statistics of coincidences with Yixin by setting the level to "4 dan":
Valkon vs Alicecooper: 17-23, 10-14.
Nirvana vs Alicecooper: 4-8, 8-9.
Furla vs Alicecooper: 7-15.

So in each of these five games, Alicecooper had more coincidences with Yixin than his opponent did. This may have happened by chance, but the probability for such a thing to occur simultaneously in each of the five games is the same as the probability of getting five tails when you toss a coin five times, that is, (1/2)^5 = 0.03.

And the overall score of coincidences is: 46-69. That is, Aliceooper's moves coincided with Yixin 1.5 times more often than his opponents' moves.

Kristof Menesi read Alicecooper's response to Kristof's complaint and did not buy Alicecooper's explanations. Kristof's reaction was pretty negative.

Alicecooper writes that he knew Kristof's addition of two stones, and this makes me wonder why it took two long minutes for Alicecooper to play 6-J7, the move he implies he knew. On my laptop, it takes about 1.5 minutes for Yixin to suggest this move with a score of 515, which almost definitely means a sure win.

alicecooper napisał/a:
4) "исто надрал Пекинга, сыграв ровно так, как надо", clean lie, then I analyzed this game, it was almost straight away, a simple victory which I did not notice in the game, then there were two more times, easier winnings

My statement "чисто надрал Пекинга, сыграв ровно так, как надо" ("perfectly won against Peking, playing exactly as was needed") is correct and not a lie, for Alicecooper had a sure win at all times during the game after Peking added two stones. Alicecooper could have won easier, but that was not needed. He played perfectly in the sense that Peking had no chance. And I can easily imagine that Alicecooper chose a bit longer win to make this game less suspicious.

alicecooper napisał/a:
3) twoje wyjaśnienia są nic nie warte
na najprostszym przykładzie: jeśli by była zwykła trójka: xxx
to program zanalizuje i pokaże na jakichś poziomach zapewne oba końce
w bardziej złożonych sytuacjach: kilka dobrych ruchów
jeśli wybierasz sobie ruchy z tego poziomu z którego akurat pasuje
to w ten sposób możesz udowodnić że każda gra była zagrana z ixinem

Not true. I have analysed a lot of games in Yixin and confidently say that generally fair players make many moves that at any depth do not coincide with Yixin.
  
 
 
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